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Scottish League Reconstruction
#1
Whats your thoughts on this?

IMO the closed-shop SFL has had it's day and radical change is needed. The fact that both Ross County and ICT came into the SFL in 1994 and both are now in the SPL proves that. In the SFL dead horses get flogged endlessly, it seems.


Firstly - SPL, SFL, SFA - we need ONE body looking after the game, not three. The SPL was introduced as a pathetic reactionary step after the English Premiership was "invented" but, the EPL is controlled by the English FA - they didn't invent a brand new bunch of hangers-on to run it. We did. Angry

Secondly - ALL orgainised league football should be operated under the SFA. No exceptions. Junior leagues, East of Scotland leagues, Highland league - all controlled by one body. You want to play semi-pro/part-time organised league football? You do it through the SFA.

Thirdly - genuine pyramid structure in the league set-up, organised as follows (to start off with):

SPL - 12 Teams (as thats what we have just now - long-term goal an 18-team SPL), 6000 permanent seats, pitch protection.

First Division - 18 teams, with strict entry requirements from below this division - 3000 permanent seats, pitch protection.

Second Division North & Second Division South - Regionalised 18-team divisions, reducing teams/supporters travelling costs and more "local" fixtures.

Third Divisions - four 18/20 team divisions, two North, two South, offering promotion places to the above division.



Other countries do stuff like this. Why cant we? Huh
 
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#2
I gave this a go a while back- it looks like we all have the same basic idea of how to fix the game in Scotland...but nobody's listening! Link below...

Linky
 
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#3
There are too many blazers in Mount Florida with their own self-interests for a pyramid system ever to be a reality.

The top division should be 14/16 teams with much lower seating requirements. 2,000 minimum seats with terracing allowed. A much fairer split of revenues and voting rights. Harsher penalties for teams who cheat the taxman and fail to pay their staff.
 
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#4
Ideally I would to see an 18 team premier league then merge the rest of the 1st division with the 2nd and 3rd. The standard between 2nd and 3rd isn't all that big. The juniors, south of Scotland and the highland leagues must be filtered underneath the sfl.

Pie in the sky thoo.
[Image: Welcometothehighlands-1.jpg]
 
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#5
As a kid, I watched Maryburgh FC regularly. Then they were the best amateur team in the area and competing in the latter stages of the Highland Amateur Cup year in year out, as well as the occasional foray into the Scottish Amateur Cup.

Imagine my young outrage when I discovered that no matter how good they were, they could never get promoted to any better league, and that they would never be appearing in the Scottish Football League or Scottish Premier League.
 
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#6
It would make sense for the Caledonian league to be underneath the highland league.

I don't understand why this hasnt been done. Electing teams into leagues is daft. I know it happened to us but they are tonnes of ambitious clubs like Spartans, auckinlech and pollock that just can't naturally progress through the leagues.

I just don't understand why we have not done what the rest of the world has done and they have been doing it for years now.
[Image: Welcometothehighlands-1.jpg]
 
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#7
(05-29-2012, 01:47 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote: As a kid, I watched Maryburgh FC regularly. Then they were the best amateur team in the area and competing in the latter stages of the Highland Amateur Cup year in year out, as well as the occasional foray into the Scottish Amateur Cup.

Imagine my young outrage when I discovered that no matter how good they were, they could never get promoted to any better league, and that they would never be appearing in the Scottish Football League or Scottish Premier League.

Five minutes from the ground?
I take it this a ward in the Ross Memorial Hospital?
How many times did Maryburgh win the Highland Amateur Cup?
Think you will find that Avoch and possibly Dingwall Thistle were more successful.
 
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#8
(05-29-2012, 08:14 AM)Fleackeuy Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 01:47 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote: As a kid, I watched Maryburgh FC regularly. Then they were the best amateur team in the area and competing in the latter stages of the Highland Amateur Cup year in year out, as well as the occasional foray into the Scottish Amateur Cup.

Imagine my young outrage when I discovered that no matter how good they were, they could never get promoted to any better league, and that they would never be appearing in the Scottish Football League or Scottish Premier League.

Five minutes from the ground?
I take it this a ward in the Ross Memorial Hospital?
How many times did Maryburgh win the Highland Amateur Cup?
Think you will find that Avoch and possibly Dingwall Thistle were more successful.

1986 and 1990.

Dingwall Thistle have also won it twice. Avoch did not win it until 2006, and I was talking about when I was young. Until Maryburgh won it for the first time, no team in Ross-shire had won it before and it was the Caithness and Orkney teams who dominated.

In particular in 1986, I seem to remember Maryburgh doing a clean sweep of everything that year (except the Scottish Amateur Cup).
 
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#9
A First Division with stadium restrictions won't work. At the moment, the only sides that could play in that set-up are:

All 12 SPL teams
Dunfermline
Falkirk
Dundee
Livingston
Partick Thistle
Hamilton Accies
Raith Rovers
Morton
QotS
Airdrie United
Clyde
Queen's Park

Maybe a couple of sides can increase seating by 500 or so (that makes Stirling Albion compliant but I don't know about anyone else), however I doubt any other side can justify the cost (they won't fill the stadium most weeks and relegation would see them playing in a 3000 seat stadium with 500 fans through the door).

That's a fairly big hole in the idea.

As for pyramid systems, they won't work. A number of Junior sides don't want the chance to be promoted to the SFL. They are comfortable being large fish in a small pond.

The country isn't big enough to support a pyramid system to this extent.
 
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#10
I disagree about the size of the country being too small

Have a look a the Dutch set up.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_foo...gue_system
[Image: Welcometothehighlands-1.jpg]
 
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#11
The Netherlands has a population three times the size of Scotland though. I feel looking at countries of a similar population size is what we should be doing.
 
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#12
(05-29-2012, 09:12 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 08:14 AM)Fleackeuy Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 01:47 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote: As a kid, I watched Maryburgh FC regularly. Then they were the best amateur team in the area and competing in the latter stages of the Highland Amateur Cup year in year out, as well as the occasional foray into the Scottish Amateur Cup.

Imagine my young outrage when I discovered that no matter how good they were, they could never get promoted to any better league, and that they would never be appearing in the Scottish Football League or Scottish Premier League.

Five minutes from the ground?
I take it this a ward in the Ross Memorial Hospital?
How many times did Maryburgh win the Highland Amateur Cup?
Think you will find that Avoch and possibly Dingwall Thistle were more successful.

1986 and 1990.

Dingwall Thistle have also won it twice. Avoch did not win it until 2006, and I was talking about when I was young. Until Maryburgh won it for the first time, no team in Ross-shire had won it before and it was the Caithness and Orkney teams who dominated.

In particular in 1986, I seem to remember Maryburgh doing a clean sweep of everything that year (except the Scottish Amateur Cup).

blackmuir were the first ross-shire team to win the! highland amateur cup
 
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#13
It's a daft set up, we can all see it, but no one will listen to us.

We have the same number of senior leagues as England which is ridiculous, they have leagues of 20-24, which is a much better size of league in my opinion.... play every team home and away. Keeps it fresh and makes it easier for 3up 3down, as opposed to the 1 that we have now.

As for governing bodies, i agree that there should be 1 and it should be the SFA, but in it's current form the SFA are not fit for purpose, the board there have their own agendas and these come before the long term interests of Scottish Football.

This may be controvesial, but IMO the Scottish National Team's performance is important, but I think it should be a secondary priority to getting supporters through the gates, kids playing football (could be linked to each other) and an increased interest in the game with the restructure - short term pain.. long term gain.

I also see the Rangers Scenario as a chance to show that they are not afraid to take big decisions, we may suffer in the short term, but I think you would see increased interest in clubs outside Glasgow (this could be what the SFA are trying to avoid - reinforcing the status quo and their status), increasing the number of kids playing and improving the long term prospects of the game.

Big changes needed (perhaps some of what has been put on this thread are what will come in, perhaps not), but unfortunately I don't see very much happening any time soon.
 
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#14
We are at a low ebb. While we may all disagree on league sizes it seems like every fan in the country is agreed we need radical, sweeping change and we broadly agree regarding governing bodies, a form of pyramid system etc. Yet people within the game have been saying it too and we see nothing done when it needs to be done NOW!

The way the SPL have dragged their heels on how they will deal with any potential Rangers fallout just goes to prove again to me they are not fit for purpose. They're sitting back waiting for whatever to happen so they don't have to make a decision themselves, and when they have to, it'll be too late to act.

What Scottish football needs most of all is a spine.
 
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#15
(05-29-2012, 12:32 PM)robinoz Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 09:12 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 08:14 AM)Fleackeuy Wrote:
(05-29-2012, 01:47 AM)Five Minutes from the Ground Wrote: As a kid, I watched Maryburgh FC regularly. Then they were the best amateur team in the area and competing in the latter stages of the Highland Amateur Cup year in year out, as well as the occasional foray into the Scottish Amateur Cup.

Imagine my young outrage when I discovered that no matter how good they were, they could never get promoted to any better league, and that they would never be appearing in the Scottish Football League or Scottish Premier League.

Five minutes from the ground?
I take it this a ward in the Ross Memorial Hospital?
How many times did Maryburgh win the Highland Amateur Cup?
Think you will find that Avoch and possibly Dingwall Thistle were more successful.

1986 and 1990.

Dingwall Thistle have also won it twice. Avoch did not win it until 2006, and I was talking about when I was young. Until Maryburgh won it for the first time, no team in Ross-shire had won it before and it was the Caithness and Orkney teams who dominated.

In particular in 1986, I seem to remember Maryburgh doing a clean sweep of everything that year (except the Scottish Amateur Cup).

blackmuir were the first ross-shire team to win the! highland amateur cup

Apologies, you are correct. Won it in the first year of the competition, albeit before my time. Does not negate my point though that during the second half of the 1980s Maryburgh were the dominant team in the area, and should have been able to progress to the SPL in a pyramid system.
 
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#16
To bring the two parts of this thread together, Maryburgh in the SPL! Really! But more has to be done at integrating the local welfare, amatuer and semi-pro leagues and cups, even if its just in our local area. I too agree with a pyramid system, England has the best system in the world IMO. But this thread is all just hot air, as there is no financial motivation for Doncaster and Co to change anything
"the beach balls are burst" Derek Adams 19/05/13
 
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#17
Guys, you have some good and bad points on the subject.

Are you referring to the North Caledonian League?
Afraid the standard of that league is not great.
The same players are moving from Summer amateur/welfare football into the North Caley league in the Winter.
As a result of this, the standards will never improve that greatly.
Some teams in the Caley league are eligible to play in the Scottish Cup, Golspie for example, their enthusiasm is great, but unfortunately their progress in the cup does not match.
Guys, guys, you need to be very careful with suggestions such as regionalisation, that would be right up the street of the totally inept Mount Florida Brigade.
Regionalisation? what would that do for the game in Scotland? absolutely sweet nothing, same teams playing each other every year, year in year out.
The standards of some leagues , i.e. the Central Belt would be higher than elsewhere, simply because of the population density.
Best thing that ever happened to North football is having both ICT and Ross County in the SPL, this can only be good for North football, hopefully the standards will rise across the whole region.
This is something ICT and Ross County will need to work on, because ! you can bet your bottom dollar the Mount Florida Brigade don’t really give a hoot.
Too much of a chore getting their fat b…..sides and heads out of the Central Belt

Oh! And Robinoz is correct Blackmuir were the first winners of the Highland Amateur Cup, in fact they won with all local guys, Strathpeffer and Dingwall, all genuine amateurs, not the jump from league to league guys (as mentioned above) we are seeing today.
If I had more time I would name the team for you.

And if memory serves me, Dingwall Thistle did the clean sweep also?
Having said that, Maryburgh did produce one young player that went on to play for Ross County, David Maclean, (mind you that was before 1986).

Anyway, stop ranting, you won’t change anything, I sent emails to Gordon Smith a few years back, when he as going to do wonders at the SFA.
Reply? still waiting.
 
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#18
(05-29-2012, 09:13 AM)StrathyStaggie Wrote: As for pyramid systems, they won't work. A number of Junior sides don't want the chance to be promoted to the SFL. They are comfortable being large fish in a small pond.

The country isn't big enough to support a pyramid system to this extent.

I understand the point about certain clubs not wanting to get promoted but there's things they could do to prevent like not upgrading their ground, should they wish that. Clubs with aspiration should be given the chance, not denied it on the basis of others not having any.

Denmark (5 million population), Norway (5 million population) and Sweden (9 million population) all have a pyramid system and it seems to work for them. Edited to add in Switzerland (8 million population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Denmark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_f...gue_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_foo...gue_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Football_League
 
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#19
Put simply if there is no progression there is stagnation. This is exactly what is happening with Scottish football. There will always be resistance to change and many valid reasons but without change everything withers and dies. This is true in every aspect of life including Scottish Football its so obvoius that stagnation is killing th egame yet they do nothing about it.
Yes 1 governing body with a specific accountable arm concentrating on youth football
SPL the old firm rule so no-one else is allowed to win and progress. Its a leaking bucket the fans lose interest and fall away, the press are lazy hacks who dont report anything outside Glasgow uunless they see it on the pub TV so there's no excitment or buzz.
The 1st division is competitive but playing each team 4 times a season for only 1 promotion slot is mad but Div 1 and 2 are best of a bad bunch.
Div 3 well other than 3 or 4 teams they don't seem to care! they're safe. BORING!!! so can't get fans interested and cant get players who will interest the fans.
Personaly I believe we need a pyramid structure 2 main leagues of 18 or 3 leagues of 16 with a winter break. 3 automatic promotion / relagation slots & 4th playoff spot in each league
3 regionalised leagues below North / Sout East / South West with a playoff system for entry to the main leagues - 3 automatic promotion/relagation slots a 4th playoff spot in each league.
Thats my thoughts & will bow to those who know better, but its got to be better than the pile of stuff we have now!!!!!
 
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#20
(05-29-2012, 03:09 PM)Fleackeuy Wrote: Guys, you have some good and bad points on the subject.

Are you referring to the North Caledonian League?
Afraid the standard of that league is not great.
The same players are moving from Summer amateur/welfare football into the North Caley league in the Winter.
As a result of this, the standards will never improve that greatly.
Some teams in the Caley league are eligible to play in the Scottish Cup, Golspie for example, their enthusiasm is great, but unfortunately their progress in the cup does not match.
Guys, guys, you need to be very careful with suggestions such as regionalisation, that would be right up the street of the totally inept Mount Florida Brigade.
Regionalisation? what would that do for the game in Scotland? absolutely sweet nothing, same teams playing each other every year, year in year out.
The standards of some leagues , i.e. the Central Belt would be higher than elsewhere, simply because of the population density.
Best thing that ever happened to North football is having both ICT and Ross County in the SPL, this can only be good for North football, hopefully the standards will rise across the whole region.
This is something ICT and Ross County will need to work on, because ! you can bet your bottom dollar the Mount Florida Brigade don’t really give a hoot.
Too much of a chore getting their fat b…..sides and heads out of the Central Belt

Oh! And Robinoz is correct Blackmuir were the first winners of the Highland Amateur Cup, in fact they won with all local guys, Strathpeffer and Dingwall, all genuine amateurs, not the jump from league to league guys (as mentioned above) we are seeing today.
If I had more time I would name the team for you.

And if memory serves me, Dingwall Thistle did the clean sweep also?
Having said that, Maryburgh did produce one young player that went on to play for Ross County, David Maclean, (mind you that was before 1986).

Anyway, stop ranting, you won’t change anything, I sent emails to Gordon Smith a few years back, when he as going to do wonders at the SFA.
Reply? still waiting.

Colin Macleod Maryburgh also played for county. Mike Rae went to rangers
 
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