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Coyle Out
#21
(12-19-2017, 05:08 PM)StaggiesAwayFromHome Wrote: Fox was on the bench for weeks. If he's not fit enough to be starting, then what's the point in him being on the bench?
In fairness, McCarey played a blinder in the game v Hearts, even if a couple of the saves he didn't know much about. Against Celtic thought he was very good too.
 
#22
Let's see how we go in next 6 games. I can honestly say I see us being bottom going into the new year. If we are still bottom in february then it's fair to say we will finish the season with our 3rd manager.

Let's not deny Coyle has talked a lot of ballocks since he's come in. Fact Clarke has got Killie winning games with even less resources highlights how the right man in charge can win you games. Trying to build a team with Eagles and Lindsay at the heart of it beggars belief. We needed a solid centre mid. Instead Coyle signed some lad who is more interested in sorting his barnet every 2 minutes.
 
#23
Is there an obligation when taking players on loan like Lindsay that we more or less have to guarantee playing time to the parent club?
 
#24
(12-20-2017, 08:39 PM)Strathglass Wrote: Is there an obligation when taking players on loan like Lindsay that we more or less have to guarantee playing time  to the parent club?

I think clauses of this ilk are getting more common, the big clubs realising that having their name attached to a player is maybe more valuable than how good the player actually is, these clauses ensure that once a player is found to be not as good as first assumed, they are still guaranteed 'development ' through game time.
 
#25
Has funny the season come early?

Fantastic thread*

*Please nobody "correct" this for free, remember you cannot correct sarcasm
 
#26
Bump.
 
#27
To start off there OC is a different caretaker than JM I feel he should be given a transfer window or 2 to get rid of the dead wood and get in his own players before we can fully judge him but at the moment  should just be canstrating on staying up
 
#28
Let's see what he does in the window,,because we are in free fall
 
#29
What's the chat off the park? Roy likely to back him well enough?
 
#30
It's fairly normal to expect some kind of reaction to the appointment of a new manager, this has been diabolical.

We have the makings of a pretty decent team, small squad but with some tenanted and some hard working players. Other than a first half against Motherwell and a first half against Killie we've been utter mince, this 433 hasn't worked and isn't working.

What's happened to the title winning development squad, DKD seems to be a sub at best now and no one else seems to be getting even that far under OC.

Things were looking bad that's why McIntyre and Dodds had to leave, we'll they're a damn sight worse now.
 
#31
(12-24-2017, 01:48 PM)NVACA Wrote: What's the chat off the park? Roy likely to back him well enough?

Pressure is building i hear.
 
#32
The critisism is justified. All Coyley has brought is good stories. The team are better than this. Roy isn't going to pay off 5 or 6 boys and their contracts. Cheaper just to sack the manager. I fear it's too late though. The board must have to shoulder the responsibility.
 
#33
(12-24-2017, 03:13 PM)frankthetank Wrote: It's fairly normal to expect some kind of reaction to the appointment of a new manager, this has been diabolical.  

We have the makings of a pretty decent team, small squad but with some tenanted and some hard working players. Other than a first half against Motherwell and a first half against Killie we've been utter mince, this 433 hasn't worked and isn't working.

What's happened to the title winning development squad, DKD seems to be a sub at best now and no one else seems to be getting even that far under OC.

Things were looking bad that's why McIntyre and Dodds had to leave, we'll they're a damn sight worse now.

But we have no out ball, a tall defence that ships goals from crosses, no pace and no cohesion in midfield. We may have some decent players but they do not compliment each other at all.
Quote:God bless the Stag Men and Children.
 
#34
Well, as the Christmas dinner is settling and the family are snoozing it off, I’m looking forward to seeing how coyle reacts in our up coming game against St J. I’m very much on the give him a month after the January window to build his squad brigade but considering the last few few seasons, the bottom team at Christmas has gone down, it’s concerning. However, team need a good support to get behind them in the coming matches, no boos no matter what. A lot to of people moaning about our defence but imo we’ve got 3 good defender in Naismith & Davies (first 2 Names on the team sheet every week) as well as Fraser, a fully competent CB. A LB Is an area we do need to strengthen in January so hopefully see a new face.. We defended well against Celtic and Rangers which is never easy. But playing well against top sides is nothing when we aren’t picking up points from teams around us. Losing to Hamilton and drawing with killie etc is the same results we’d see under Jimbo (good against top 6, average against the rest). I used to think this was jims ault not hyping the players up enough (aside from tactic blunders) but the same happens now so I think the players need to take some responsibility. Can’t just show up to the ‘big games’. A clear out of Dow, chow, Kelly and McKay would be a start, bringing in a Cover for CB a cover RM and a striker. Imo a striker and a LB is where we need strengthening most. I’d like to see another centre midfielder come in also. But anyway, merry Christmas folks. Hopefully 3pts on Wednesday!
 
#35
*Ahem* ''tis the season to be jolly...
 
#36
Under Coyle we have gone from needing to get a midfield sorted out to needing players all over the park.  He is clearly worse than Mac and Doddsy.  He keeps changing the team and his tactics are more questionable than the previous team.  Players, like Davies, who stood out in the past look worse than ordinary now.  It is Coyle and Coyle alone that has drained the confidence from the team.  He is the one that needs to be replaced and I hope the Club dont throw good money after bad on players that change nothing.  I said it was a terrible appointment when it was made and am more convinced than ever that he is dragging us into the Championship.
 
#37
(12-25-2017, 07:58 PM)Boff Wrote: Under Coyle we have gone from needing to get a midfield sorted out to needing players all over the park.  He is clearly worse than Mac and Doddsy.  He keeps changing the team and his tactics are more questionable than the previous team.  Players, like Davies, who stood out in the past look worse than ordinary now.  It is Coyle and Coyle alone that has drained the confidence from the team.  He is the one that needs to be replaced and I hope the Club dont throw good money after bad on players that change nothing.  I said it was a terrible appointment when it was made and am more convinced than ever that he is dragging us into the Championship.

I hate to say this but that, in my opinion, is complete and utter tripe. 

GET BACKING THE MANAGER SO CALLED STAGGIE FANS!

I don’t normally do this as a fan you are entitled to your opinion but some of the so called Staggie fans right now calls on social media, fans pages and chat rooms has been embarrassing to say the least. It’s simple give Coyle a chance to turn around the mess he has inherited and start giving him some backing. He has not even had a transfer window yet to turn things around and bring it his own better quality players and people are calling for his head and some are coming out with the classic line of did not rate him or McIntyre & Dodds would have done better/sorted it out. Some of that is simply people trying to pop back at me etc. Which is petty and childish as I was proved right as regards McIntyre been bad for the club long term. Look at the mess he left. A lot of the carry on from McIntyre and Dodds in the changing room and off the field was been kept hush hush by their friends in the media and that is why Roy, despite been loyal to them, was left with no option but to get rid as it was doing damage to the clubs reputation as a family club but also in dealing with agents and players who would not sign or deal with the club because of the rep the 2 of them had gained with their nonsense. Don’t believe me, look at the facts. Their first full season in charge they were able to recruit some decent quality players and beat other clubs to them. The following 2 windows after the proverbial started to hit the fan the only players they could attract was players that other clubs did not want such as McEvely, Dow, McKay, Mikelson, Kelly all on over inflated wages and contracts. All fans could see it. For past 2 seasons we could see that we needed to sign another younger commanding Centre Half with pace but instead all we could get was McEvely & Quinn. We have been shouting for a holding midfielder since Murdoch went yet we sign a numerous midfielders (one on loan which if rumour is to believed we are contractually obliged to provide so many starts/hours of game time as part of the T & C’s of the deal which shows the sort of mess which Coyle took over and has to work with) none of which fit the bill. We all knew Boyce would move on in the summer due to finishing SPFL top scorer yet all Jim and Billy could attracted was an injured player who had 2 consecutive back to back relegations behind him and a striker who played championship football the season before and was not prolific. So fans are blaming Coyle yet look what he has to work with as a starter for 10 without even having a window to change it. Oh and if you think that McIntyre & Dodds had a better record in the league than Coyle then these stats will put it to bed.

McIntyre Stats in charge in League this season:

Played 7, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 5, 4 Points, Goals For 5, Goals Against 14, Goal Difference -9
* Conceded in every league game under McIntyre
* 3 Games beaten by 2 or more goals of a difference
Ave points per game 0.57
Ave goals per game 0.72
Ave goals against per game 2
Win percentage 14%

Coyle Stats in Charge in League this season to date:

Played 13, Won 3, Drew 3, Lost 7, 12 Points, Goals For 15, Goals Against 19, Goal Difference -4
* 3 clean sheets
* 1 game beaten by 2 or more goals (Home v Dundee last minute break away when pushing for draw)
* Ave points per game 0.92
* Ave goals for per game 1.15
* Ave goals Against per game 1.46
* Win percentage 23%

So it’s very clear to see the improvement Coyle has made he has come in by looking at the average stats. In fact it highlights how bad we were under McIntyre & Dodds and going on those averages if we had stuck with them as some fans had suggested we would currently on the form the club was under them be siting on about 8 points which means we would have been in last place 9 points adrift from the play off place rather than currently been 1 point off play off place and a 2-0 win tonight off 10th place. Coyle has reduced down the goals against ratio whilst increasing the goals for ratio which shows a good manager. Under Mcintyre we were not averaging a goal a game yet we were conceding an average of 2 so we were set up with players and formation to drop points and lose games. As Coyle keeps saying it’s fine margins that County have to turn around to gain the points and it shows as under Coyle he has only lost 1 game by more than a 2 Goal Difference and that was a last minute break away and mistake by County Keeper. The stats show that Coyle has managed to work with what he has to make us much more competitive and once he has an opportunity to bring in more quality in Window and by all accounts there is a lot of quality coming in as well as dross going out then we will turn around those scorelines and more importantly get the points needed. Coyle has also been hamstrung by squad size and injury. Davies the only true recognised centre half started in all McIntyres games yet under Coyle he has been injured twice in games which has resulted in games been draws and then missing following games where we lost. (Hearts, Dundee, Killie, Hamilton) Bar Hearts these are all teams down around us so to have your only recognised signed centre half injured and then out for the following game is more bad luck than bad managment. As highlighted it’s not Coyle’s fault that he inherited a squad with only one recognised signed centre half signed so he has to play a combination of full backs and centre midfielders in that position. 

On the point of luck or in this case poor ref decisions going against Coyle at this time. In the past 4 games County have had ref calls go against them that could have resulted in 5 more points gained with other teams around dropping points against them. Last minute pen against Rangers away for blatant push on Davies in box (seen them given), Red card for Kris Boyd diving and ref gave foul but failed to book for 2nd yellow (Boyd would not have been on park to score deflected equaliser) Free Kick for Hamilton’s 3rd Goal was a slip by Imrie and no foul (footage showed ref got wrong and game would have finished in draw) last minute equaliser against Hibs away ruled out for debatable off side (again seen them given). If we had the rub of the green and the officials got these decisions correct then the league table would look like this at present:

(1) Celtic 50pts
(2) Aberdeen 39pts
(3) Rangers 34pts
(4) Hibs 31pts
(5) Hearts 28pts
(6) St John 25pts
(7) Mwell 24pts
(8) Killie 22pts
(9) County 21pts
(10) Dundee 19pts
(11) Accies 18pts
(12) Thistle 17pts

So people are criticising Coyle’s after match comments but he is spot on when he said about fine margins and decisions changing games as the table above and stats show that. I doubt if the correct ref decisions had taken place would fans be criticising Coyle as we would be a win tonight away from going up to 7th with a poss finishing the year in top 6 with a win. Coyle is spot on with if he can get the quality in then we will be in a better position at end of seasons as that is the time when league positions are handed out! Players have to take responsibility on and off the field as well as I know Coyle in the past week has had to deal with alleged off field discipline resulting in a senior player been dropped to the bench as well as 2 other senior players involved. At a time when your team is struggling you would expect senior pros to take the lead & responsibility but clearly that is not the case so with window coming up best thing to do is get rid and get players, especially senior pros, in who want to be there and achieve. In the days of Brittain & Boyd that sort of carry on would have been stopped straight away but again it shows the type of changing room & squad that Coyle has inherited. That was obvious last season at end when they went on unbeaten run but it shows the difference Coyle has made so far that he has managed to improve the teams aveage with same players.

So simply start to back the manager and he does not deserve the criticism or calls for his head as he has not had a Window yet. It’s obvious he knows what he is doing. he is an experienced manager and I am an experienced fan and I am backing the man as the time to judge is in May when the league positions are finalised and at that’s point I am very confident both Coyle as well as me will be due an apology for comments posted on line and Roy will be vindicated in his decision to change manager. Coyle will then get a full summer window to reshape the squad and change the ethos in changing room to see a real Owen Coyle team which I am excited for as look at the sides he put out at StJohnstone & Burnley. 

I don't seem to remember you, or anyone else, calling for McIntyre and Dodds to be sacked prior to their 1st transfer window - even after we lost 5-0 to Celtic in Dingwall. Give the man a break if things fail to pick up after he has managed to get his own players in and has shipped out those he wants rid of then yeah sack him but to call for him to be sacked while still having to deal with players he didn't sign, except Eagles, then that really is short sighted.
 
#38
Highly unlikely Coyle will get the sack until he has had the opportunity to bring in some of his own players.

The one thing I will say if he hasn’t got a number of players lined up to come in when the window opens questions need to be asked.

Scrambling about towards the end of the window and bringing in a similar level of dross currently on display at the club will result in relegation and his inevitable sack with his chances of getting another job in football management negligible.
Gudgie67 aka Gadgie67
 
#39
(12-27-2017, 07:38 PM)gudgie67 Wrote: Highly unlikely Coyle will get the sack until he has had the opportunity to bring in some of his own players.

The one thing I will say if he hasn’t got a number of players lined up to come in when the window opens questions need to be asked.

Scrambling about towards the end of the window and bringing in a similar level of dross currently on display at the club will result in relegation and his inevitable sack with his chances of getting another job in football management negligible.

Saying tonight he wants to take in three players in January
Supporter Liaison Officer 

 
#40
(12-28-2017, 12:15 AM)staggie2509 Wrote: Saying tonight he wants to take in three players in January

He needs at least 4 IMO. 

1)CH
2)LB
3)CM
4)CF

To get that he'll need to move some out. Take your pick who. There's not too many we'd miss TBH.

(12-27-2017, 07:04 PM)mike_lowrie Wrote: I hate to say this but that, in my opinion, is complete and utter tripe. 

GET BACKING THE MANAGER SO CALLED STAGGIE FANS!

I don’t normally do this as a fan you are entitled to your opinion but some of the so called Staggie fans right now calls on social media, fans pages and chat rooms has been embarrassing to say the least. It’s simple give Coyle a chance to turn around the mess he has inherited and start giving him some backing. He has not even had a transfer window yet to turn things around and bring it his own better quality players and people are calling for his head and some are coming out with the classic line of did not rate him or McIntyre & Dodds would have done better/sorted it out. Some of that is simply people trying to pop back at me etc. Which is petty and childish as I was proved right as regards McIntyre been bad for the club long term. Look at the mess he left. A lot of the carry on from McIntyre and Dodds in the changing room and off the field was been kept hush hush by their friends in the media and that is why Roy, despite been loyal to them, was left with no option but to get rid as it was doing damage to the clubs reputation as a family club but also in dealing with agents and players who would not sign or deal with the club because of the rep the 2 of them had gained with their nonsense. Don’t believe me, look at the facts. Their first full season in charge they were able to recruit some decent quality players and beat other clubs to them. The following 2 windows after the proverbial started to hit the fan the only players they could attract was players that other clubs did not want such as McEvely, Dow, McKay, Mikelson, Kelly all on over inflated wages and contracts. All fans could see it. For past 2 seasons we could see that we needed to sign another younger commanding Centre Half with pace but instead all we could get was McEvely & Quinn. We have been shouting for a holding midfielder since Murdoch went yet we sign a numerous midfielders (one on loan which if rumour is to believed we are contractually obliged to provide so many starts/hours of game time as part of the T & C’s of the deal which shows the sort of mess which Coyle took over and has to work with) none of which fit the bill. We all knew Boyce would move on in the summer due to finishing SPFL top scorer yet all Jim and Billy could attracted was an injured player who had 2 consecutive back to back relegations behind him and a striker who played championship football the season before and was not prolific. So fans are blaming Coyle yet look what he has to work with as a starter for 10 without even having a window to change it. Oh and if you think that McIntyre & Dodds had a better record in the league than Coyle then these stats will put it to bed.

McIntyre Stats in charge in League this season:

Played 7, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 5, 4 Points, Goals For 5, Goals Against 14, Goal Difference -9
* Conceded in every league game under McIntyre
* 3 Games beaten by 2 or more goals of a difference
Ave points per game 0.57
Ave goals per game 0.72
Ave goals against per game 2
Win percentage 14%

Coyle Stats in Charge in League this season to date:

Played 13, Won 3, Drew 3, Lost 7, 12 Points, Goals For 15, Goals Against 19, Goal Difference -4
* 3 clean sheets
* 1 game beaten by 2 or more goals (Home v Dundee last minute break away when pushing for draw)
* Ave points per game 0.92
* Ave goals for per game 1.15
* Ave goals Against per game 1.46
* Win percentage 23%

So it’s very clear to see the improvement Coyle has made he has come in by looking at the average stats. In fact it highlights how bad we were under McIntyre & Dodds and going on those averages if we had stuck with them as some fans had suggested we would currently on the form the club was under them be siting on about 8 points which means we would have been in last place 9 points adrift from the play off place rather than currently been 1 point off play off place and a 2-0 win tonight off 10th place. Coyle has reduced down the goals against ratio whilst increasing the goals for ratio which shows a good manager. Under Mcintyre we were not averaging a goal a game yet we were conceding an average of 2 so we were set up with players and formation to drop points and lose games. As Coyle keeps saying it’s fine margins that County have to turn around to gain the points and it shows as under Coyle he has only lost 1 game by more than a 2 Goal Difference and that was a last minute break away and mistake by County Keeper. The stats show that Coyle has managed to work with what he has to make us much more competitive and once he has an opportunity to bring in more quality in Window and by all accounts there is a lot of quality coming in as well as dross going out then we will turn around those scorelines and more importantly get the points needed. Coyle has also been hamstrung by squad size and injury. Davies the only true recognised centre half started in all McIntyres games yet under Coyle he has been injured twice in games which has resulted in games been draws and then missing following games where we lost. (Hearts, Dundee, Killie, Hamilton) Bar Hearts these are all teams down around us so to have your only recognised signed centre half injured and then out for the following game is more bad luck than bad managment. As highlighted it’s not Coyle’s fault that he inherited a squad with only one recognised signed centre half signed so he has to play a combination of full backs and centre midfielders in that position. 

On the point of luck or in this case poor ref decisions going against Coyle at this time. In the past 4 games County have had ref calls go against them that could have resulted in 5 more points gained with other teams around dropping points against them. Last minute pen against Rangers away for blatant push on Davies in box (seen them given), Red card for Kris Boyd diving and ref gave foul but failed to book for 2nd yellow (Boyd would not have been on park to score deflected equaliser) Free Kick for Hamilton’s 3rd Goal was a slip by Imrie and no foul (footage showed ref got wrong and game would have finished in draw) last minute equaliser against Hibs away ruled out for debatable off side (again seen them given). If we had the rub of the green and the officials got these decisions correct then the league table would look like this at present:

(1) Celtic 50pts
(2) Aberdeen 39pts
(3) Rangers 34pts
(4) Hibs 31pts
(5) Hearts 28pts
(6) St John 25pts
(7) Mwell 24pts
(8) Killie 22pts
(9) County 21pts
(10) Dundee 19pts
(11) Accies 18pts
(12) Thistle 17pts

So people are criticising Coyle’s after match comments but he is spot on when he said about fine margins and decisions changing games as the table above and stats show that. I doubt if the correct ref decisions had taken place would fans be criticising Coyle as we would be a win tonight away from going up to 7th with a poss finishing the year in top 6 with a win. Coyle is spot on with if he can get the quality in then we will be in a better position at end of seasons as that is the time when league positions are handed out! Players have to take responsibility on and off the field as well as I know Coyle in the past week has had to deal with alleged off field discipline resulting in a senior player been dropped to the bench as well as 2 other senior players involved. At a time when your team is struggling you would expect senior pros to take the lead & responsibility but clearly that is not the case so with window coming up best thing to do is get rid and get players, especially senior pros, in who want to be there and achieve. In the days of Brittain & Boyd that sort of carry on would have been stopped straight away but again it shows the type of changing room & squad that Coyle has inherited. That was obvious last season at end when they went on unbeaten run but it shows the difference Coyle has made so far that he has managed to improve the teams aveage with same players.

So simply start to back the manager and he does not deserve the criticism or calls for his head as he has not had a Window yet. It’s obvious he knows what he is doing. he is an experienced manager and I am an experienced fan and I am backing the man as the time to judge is in May when the league positions are finalised and at that’s point I am very confident both Coyle as well as me will be due an apology for comments posted on line and Roy will be vindicated in his decision to change manager. Coyle will then get a full summer window to reshape the squad and change the ethos in changing room to see a real Owen Coyle team which I am excited for as look at the sides he put out at StJohnstone & Burnley. 

I don't seem to remember you, or anyone else, calling for McIntyre and Dodds to be sacked prior to their 1st transfer window - even after we lost 5-0 to Celtic in Dingwall. Give the man a break if things fail to pick up after he has managed to get his own players in and has shipped out those he wants rid of then yeah sack him but to call for him to be sacked while still having to deal with players he didn't sign, except Eagles, then that really is short sighted.

Good post. Bit long mind  Tongue

I wasn't convinced by the OC appointment but since he's here I'm definitely supporting him. Hopefully he's got some signings in mind for January and they hit the ground running. If we survive this season I'll be judging him more next season as by then it should be his team.
 
  


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