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Poll: Do you want an Independent Scotland ?
This poll is closed.
Aye
52.38%
11 52.38%
Naw
47.62%
10 47.62%
Total 21 votes 100%
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What will you vote ? (Independence)
#1
Independence from the UK -

What will you vote ?
Highlander29
 
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#2
I would like Scotland to be independent. However sadly I can't afford to be an idealist. The SNP will need to show that an independent Scotland will be better off out with the Union. If they can show that, I think they will win a referendum.

I think David Cameron should be worried, as the SNP are very clever. They know that the Unionist vote will be split between more powers for a devolved Scotland and a No vote. However even a fierce unionist like George Galloway is saying that Cameron should stay out and let the people decide.

As for the poll, I do want an independent Scotland. However if it isn't financially viable I would probably vote for greater powers if it is going to be a three way vote.
YOINK
 
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#3
I have a few questions, hopefully someone can help me with:

a) How do you define what our portion of the national debt is? Pro-rata for the population?
b) What would happen to the armed forces? Would they continue to be joined?
c) What are the major benefits? Does support come from sentiment/idealism/historical anti-Englishness? perceived affluence from oil/Irn Bru production?

I'll admit to not being as clued up as I ought to be on something so important. I've got a very open mind as far as independence is concerned, I'm more than happy for both sides to try and sell their arguement to me.

edit to say: just send me a link if there is a somewhere I can find my answers...
 
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#4
a) How do you define what our portion of the national debt is? Pro-rata for the population?

This debt wont be applicable to us. It was secured against the treasury. I know it would seem unfair but we would walk away scot-free (pardon the pun). See it as a thank you for some of the natural resources that has been stripped from Scotland.

b) What would happen to the armed forces? Would they continue to be joined?

Nothing much would change, We are a member of NATO, the EU and the UN. If a Scot was to join the Union army it would be like a Canadian/Aussie. Remember we are keeping the queen. We are and always will be in the commonwealth. However our parliment would have the say on weather a Scottish force was to be used in a conflict.

I cant stress enough this is not a divorce. This is purely the right to govern our affairs on all levels. The British Isles and the history of Britain is something to be cheerished. Im not anti British/English. We have been involved in the good times (WW2) and the bad times (Slavery).

c) What are the major benefits? Does support come from sentiment/idealism/historical anti-Englishness? perceived affluence from oil/Irn Bru production?

If you lived in a village, who is best to decide how money is spent in that village ? Things would be managed more locally and efficiently.

In the first 15yrs nothing would change, however we are the only country in the world that doesnt save in an oil fund. The oil wont be there forever. The Norwegian example is one Mr Salmond wants to copy. Here a few facts which might sway you -

We have more oil than the rest of Europe put together. (Excluding Russia)
We are larger than 23 other countries/states in Europe that are already Independent.
Norway started its oil fund in 1992.
We still have just under 50% of the oil.
Banking brings more to the Scottish economy than Oil.

A favourite quote of mine -

"The powers I wish for us all are powers to protect us all. This (Independence) is not an arcane question removed from the people - it is the people, you and me, and how we protect our society, and grow our economy. That is what I mean by independence. I fight not for flags and anthems, but fairness and compassion. I fight for a generation that is not burdened by the mistakes of this one." Alex Salmond

I have chatted for hours with unionists, I can not and never have heard one positive reason from them why Scotland should remain in the union.
Highlander29
 
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#5
Yes it is true that the debt is tied in with the Crown, but likewise all of the UK government's assets would also belong to the remaining Union. To think we would get away Scot-free isn't likely. The likes of our banks are largely state owned. We would have to consider corporation tax to make it financially viable for these state owned companies to remain in Scotland. They would be wide scale negotiation for a number of years, and it could get very messy.

Scotland is not a member of NATO, UN or the EU. The Union is. The EU couldn't decide if we would automatically remain a member of the EU or we would have to reapply. Resubmission would also need us to commit to the Euro.

It certainly isn't as simplistic as both sides would like us to make out. There will be a lot of scare mongering, and Salmond will not get an easy a ride as he does in the Scottish elections where he regularly makes the opposition look stupid. Seasoned debaters would be against him in the campaign.

The most important thing for the SNP is to prove that every man woman and child that lives in an independent Scotland would be better off. If they can do that and their facts and figures stand up to intense scrutiny (which they haven't in the past) I think they will win the referendum. It is a big if though.
YOINK
 
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#6
It was specifically stated in The Scotsman (and other sources) that the SNP are not pushing the oil economy line. The emphasis is on renewable sources of energy rather than fossil fuels. This was a claim backed up by a SNP spokesperson.

Yes to Devo Max or No to full independence from me.
 
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#7
Yes it is true that the debt is tied in with the Crown, but likewise all of the UK government's assets would also belong to the remaining Union. To think we would get away Scot-free isn't likely. The likes of our banks are largely state owned. We would have to consider corporation tax to make it financially viable for these state owned companies to remain in Scotland. They would be wide scale negotiation for a number of years, and it could get very messy.

Usually you get a mandate that nothing can change for so many years. It keeps business calm and gives everyone time. It Scotland got Independence it would be a very slow process. We have Nuclear power stations the SNP dont want. Nuclear weapons the SNP dont want. There will always have to be deals between Scotland and England.

Scotland is not a member of NATO, UN or the EU. The Union is. The EU couldn't decide if we would automatically remain a member of the EU or we would have to reapply. Resubmission would also need us to commit to the Euro.

Will the Euro be here in 10 years ? Who knows, We would get into the EU has they are not going to throw our MEPs out until we re-apply. NATO is almost just a cold war term, and the UN, if it takes time it takes time.

It certainly isn't as simplistic as both sides would like us to make out. There will be a lot of scare mongering, and Salmond will not get an easy a ride as he does in the Scottish elections where he regularly makes the opposition look stupid. Seasoned debaters would be against him in the campaign.

Tell me a Unionist that is a match for Alex Salmond ? I think the biggest mistake the unionists will make is pitching David Cameron against Mr Salmond. Big Eck would destroy him. Hence him being barred from the TV debates on the general elections. Alex Salmond is a smart well run machine at debating. Research you tube you will enjoy him dominating BBC sarcastic political puppets.

The most important thing for the SNP is to prove that every man woman and child that lives in an independent Scotland would be better off. If they can do that and their facts and figures stand up to intense scrutiny (which they haven't in the past) I think they will win the referendum. It is a big if though

I actually think the SNP will lose the referendum. However it doesnt stop me supporting the case. We would be 9% better off. What that means in real terms I dont know. As Strathy Staggie says DEVO MAX is a real aim and one I think the SNP should seek.
Highlander29
 
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#8
I Wish Northumbrians had a chance to vote for independence. Good luck to you all. I love Scotland, the Highlands especially, and the people. I just hope it works out for the better and I don't have to go through loads of hassle just to cross the border.
Plus, please do not get hung up on anti-Englishness. A Geordie is a massively different person to a Cockney or Yorkshireman.
SHIRT NUMBER 34.

(formerly named Geordieland Staggie).

Registered member since March 2003.
 
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#9
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/inter...201114752/
 
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#10
Yes

Cameron is butchering the UK's relationship with Europe, our biggest trading partner. Time for Scotland to break away to build its own relationship. The oil is all well and good, but also bear in mind Scotland is a world leader in the development of wind and wave power technology. As previously stated, Salmond and the SNP are very clever political operators- the decision to hold the referendum in autumn 2014 is a strategic one, coming on the 700th anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn, during a year in which Scotland hosts the Commonwealth games and the Ryder Cup

I'd be prepared to let the English have Glasgow, though, and they're keeping Fraser Nelson
"The heart of the club is the fan. The board and the chairman are custodians. The staff are transient. But the fan is there forever"

Roy Macgregor, April 2013
 
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#11
(01-12-2012, 12:49 PM)VanderDalgarno Wrote: Yes

Cameron is butchering the UK's relationship with Europe, our biggest trading partner. Time for Scotland to break away to build its own relationship. The oil is all well and good, but also bear in mind Scotland is a world leader in the development of wind and wave power technology. As previously stated, Salmond and the SNP are very clever political operators- the decision to hold the referendum in autumn 2014 is a strategic one, coming on the 700th anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn, during a year in which Scotland hosts the Commonwealth games and the Ryder Cup

I'd be prepared to let the English have Glasgow, though, and they're keeping Fraser Nelson

If that has any bearing on a person's decision which way to vote, then I truly despair.
 
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#12
Well said Ciaranhill. The vote for yes should not be a battle cry.
Highlander29
 
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#13
It shouldn't have any bearing on it, but it could be used as a string in the SNP campaign team's bow
"The heart of the club is the fan. The board and the chairman are custodians. The staff are transient. But the fan is there forever"

Roy Macgregor, April 2013
 
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#14
Why do you think the year for the referendum is going to be 2014 and the British government want it 2013? The fact it will be the 700th anniversary will have meaning to certain voters that haven't decided. It will have a baring on some voters that haven't made up their mind. As I said earlier the SNP government are extremely clever, and this campaign has been strategised since the 1960s.

It really the fight will be won or lost on the strength of the SNP debating skills. Currently they are better than every other party. Alex Salmond is a seasoned campaigner and the other parties with Cameron, Milliband and Clegg will have stand together and debate better than they have done in the past to make head on Salmond.

I just wish George Galloway was made an MSP in the last election. Only then would you have a debate that Salmond wouldn't be guaranteed to win. The mother of all talk show hosts would have given him a good battle.
YOINK
 
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#15
Then perhaps they are being clever, if being clever means appealing to the lowest denominator and stirring up some so good old fashioned race hate.

People ought to be less concerned with the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn, and more with whether or not the country will be a better place to live in 2024 (710th), 2044 (730th)and 2064 (750th anniversary).

SNP have the strongest leader, who is well versed in the campaign for independence, having been living and breathing it for so long, far better equipped than whoever they prep to stand against him. That doesn’t make it the right choice though.

I think a lot of hearts are ruling heads on this issue, which I’m not going to say is wrong (this is a democracy), but I intend to remain as practical as possible before deciding which way to vote, as we’ll live with that decision long after Eck Salmond is dead and gone.
 
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#16
What we forget is that there is a significant number of people who are in fact mindless idiots. They will vote "Yes" because of the stirring sense of national pride they feel in 2014.

Bannockburn wasn't even the conclusive battle of the First Independence War FFS.
 
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#17
Very true the Battle of Bannockburn was not the Independence battle folk think it was. WE HAVE FRANCE to thank for independence, Like America too. It was them that had the English forces so stretched.

Anyway this vote aint about history. Its about the future. I think the future will be better if we break away from the Union and run our own affairs.
One of the reasons Im enjoying this thread is its a random pot albeit mainly local guys in there younger years that are voting in the above poll.

Im very concious of having SNP tinted glasses and I think the BBC are being disgraceful in all of this. It would be good to see a non bias opinion poll. I think its more close to the 50/50 than reported.
Highlander29
 
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#18
(01-13-2012, 11:37 AM)Son of Earl. Wrote: Very true the Battle of Bannockburn was not the Independence battle folk think it was. WE HAVE FRANCE to thank for independence, Like America too. It was them that had the English forces so stretched.

Well no that's not strictly true. That's an issue for another thread though.
 
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#19
Why do you think previous governments and opposition leaders have always courted to get the backing of The Sun newspaper in the last twenty years? Simply as Yoda stated they are people that like to be told their opinions. They follow up this by voting the way the paper they have read all year manipulates them to vote.

Likewise having the election in 2014 will gather more votes from people who are swayed easily. Likewise Labour have benefitted greatly in the past by having voters blindly following them. My gran votes labour everytime. I ask her why and she says Granda voted that way, so I will.

A lot of the electorate will be swayed easily, and having the independence vote in 2014 will help the SNP. It's up to Salmond now to show us if it is feasible, and if his financial analysis stands up to intense scrutiny. If he can show I will be better off, I will vote for independence. If not I will go down the more devolved power route.

YOINK
 
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#20
(01-13-2012, 02:10 PM)Carlos Wrote: Why do you think previous governments and opposition leaders have always courted to get the backing of The Sun newspaper in the last twenty years? Simply as Yoda stated they are people that like to be told their opinions. They follow up this by voting the way the paper they have read all year manipulates them to vote.

Likewise having the election in 2014 will gather more votes from people who are swayed easily. Likewise Labour have benefitted greatly in the past by having voters blindly following them. My gran votes labour everytime. I ask her why and she says Granda voted that way, so I will.

A lot of the electorate will be swayed easily, and having the independence vote in 2014 will help the SNP. It's up to Salmond now to show us if it is feasible, and if his financial analysis stands up to intense scrutiny. If he can show I will be better off, I will vote for independence. If not I will go down the more devolved power route.

http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/com...news.reads

The guardian is a Labour/liberal Newspaper, the above piece might be of interest.

I read the Independent via my Iphone App. The days of me reading The Sun and Daily Record are long since going. I used to be a massive Daily Record reader however the quality of the writting and standard of stories have declined sadly.

The written press will be near obsolete in the next 20 years, Its important your news source on this aint even the trust BBC. A wide variety as on this everyone has a hidden agenda.

Highlander29
 
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