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Poll: Should Scotland be an Independant County?
Yes
No
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Aye or Naw
#1
The other thread regarding independance has been running a while now, and I'm sure some people have changed their minds on how they'll vote since they cast the initial vote ont hat thread.

So since we're only 48 hours away from the real vote - what's everyone thinking now.

'Should Scotland be an Independant County?'
 
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#2
I am sure the heartfelt plea in the Daily Record is good for another couple of YES votes Wink

(09-16-2014, 01:04 PM)thejailender Wrote: 'Should Scotland be an Independant County?'

Ross County??
 
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#3
Now the question was should "Ross County" be an independant state i.e. everything above the Kessock Bridge - I'd definitely vote YES!
Supporter Liaison Officer 

 
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#4
I've changed from No to Yes. And from reluctant Yes to definite Yes.
 
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#5
Always been a yes.This has been great for tourism particularly from the South, will they come back in their droves next year I wonder?
 
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#6
Aye from me as i was from the start, been getting butterflies in my stomach ever since the Yes vote went ahead in the polls and scared the bejesus out of Better Together campaign.
Labour are trying to distance themselves from the Tories and UKIP have been stirring it up a bit, Cameron may be joining Adams on the dole late Friday morning!!
Better Together? No Thanks!! YES all the way!!
 
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#7
On the eve of the most important vote that we'll ever take part in i'd just hope that everyone behaves in a rational manner on Friday morning when the result is announced. Whatever the outcome we all have to live together and work through the issues that come out of the result, the world will not stop spinning because of a Yes or No vote.
 
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#8
Just a tad concerned that the hatred/bitterness could escalate between the rests of the UK and Scotland due to the UK potentially dipping back into ressiosion due to the value of the pound flat-lining. We may think that we'll be England, Wales and Northern Irelands best friend after a YES vote, but will they view things in the same way......or will they see the Scots as the people who broke up the UK.

Scotland is an ageing population, we need to be able to pay to care for the elderly and those who can't work, and those who simply won't work - not a small burden for 5m people!
Supporter Liaison Officer 

 
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#9
Well, it’s referendum eve and I cannot decide whether I’m excited or scared – is it Christmas Eve or Hallowe’en? But I have made up my mind how I’m going to vote, and it’s a Naw.

As usual the politicians haven’t helped at all. They have all just spouted what they think we want to hear. Nothing new there. We are no better informed now than at the start of the “campaign” but one thing we do know, and which we have always known, is that politicians cannot be trusted. Not the three stooges from Westminster bearing gifts, nor Alex and his gang. Anyway all of that is party politics and I have realised, perhaps rather later than I ought to, just how irrelevant party politics is this time around.

What we are talking about here is the future of the country we all love. Not now, or tomorrow, or even next year, but forever. That’s an important decision so I have based it on what I know rather than what the politicians have been saying.

It does seem to me that the two most important things that an independent country needs to have are a reliable currency, and some means of defence (hopefully, but not necessarily in that order).

I do not pretend to understand how international finance works but I do know that when the pound has been weak I haven’t felt as good as when it has been strong. I guess that is because we have to import so much, and a weak currency soon leads to inflation, with all the stresses and uncertainties that brings.

Much has been said of how Scotland is the 14th richest country in the world. I am not sure how that has been assessed, but I do know that I would have to be pretty sure that was always going to be the case if I was to base my decision on it. I expect that it has something to do with natural resources. Even if everyone has got the oil thing wrong and there are 30 or even 40 years of oil left, what happens after that? We may still have 40% (or whatever) of Europe’s wind and tidal energy resources, but if the only way to exploit that is to turn Scotland into one giant wind (or pylon) farm that is not the Scotland I want to preserve.

So I have been looking for proof positive that an independent Scotland can establish and maintain a valuable and stable currency. I haven’t heard it, even from the Yes side, so I have to conclude that it doesn’t exist. And if the pound is the best option, that is no argument for independence.

And what about defence? All I have heard about defence is Trident. I do see the attraction of a nuclear free Scotland, but that is just party politics and, as I have said, I am ignoring party politics. An independent nation needs an effective defence. Not against invading armies, but against the modern threats including terrorism and technology crime. It seems to me that the most effective defences against those are an effective intelligence system and the threat (and hopefully just the threat) of effective retaliation. An independent Scotland would not enjoy either of those without the sort of expenditure which would prejudice other essential public spending.

We may not agree with UK defence policy in recent years (party politics again) but I think it is important to have a realistic threat just in case the politicians can get it right one day. NATO or UN doesn’t wash. It is a completely different matter to get UN sanctions for air strikes (for example) than it is to persuade the UN or even NATO to carry out those strikes on our behalf. If you sense that I don’t like what is going on in Syria and Iraq, you are right. I doubt that you do either.

So what I am looking for is the outcome which is most likely to preserve and enhance the values and virtues of the Scotland I know and love. I was distressed to hear John Swinney being so ready to jettison those renowned Scottish traits of trust, honesty and reliability by suggesting in a huff that if Scotland doesn’t get to keep the pound it wouldn’t pay its debts.

And I was equally distressed to hear David Cameron saying that we should not vote Yes just to get rid of the “effing Tories” as if we could not string a sentence together without including a swear word.

Neither of them helped me to make up my mind. I have just gone with what I know. That’s not much, but it’s the best I have. Things are not perfect in the UK, but they are not bad either. As part of the UK we have come out of recession much quicker than most (all?) other countries of Scotland’s size. I feel secure. I fear that independence might erode that security and (ironically) some of Scotland’s virtues. Not perhaps for me, or even for my children, but maybe for my grandchildren. I would prefer not to have that on my conscience. So it’s a Naw for me. If that’s the safe option, that’s just the Scottish way, isn’t it?
 
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#10
(09-17-2014, 10:22 PM)Wicky Wrote: I do not pretend to understand how international finance works but I do know that when the pound has been weak I haven’t felt as good as when it has been strong. I guess that is because we have to import so much, and a weak currency soon leads to inflation, with all the stresses and uncertainties that brings.

Much has been said of how Scotland is the 14th richest country in the world. I am not sure how that has been assessed, but I do know that I would have to be pretty sure that was always going to be the case if I was to base my decision on it. I expect that it has something to do with natural resources. Even if everyone has got the oil thing wrong and there are 30 or even 40 years of oil left, what happens after that? We may still have 40% (or whatever) of Europe’s wind and tidal energy resources, but if the only way to exploit that is to turn Scotland into one giant wind (or pylon) farm that is not the Scotland I want to preserve.

So I have been looking for proof positive that an independent Scotland can establish and maintain a valuable and stable currency. I haven’t heard it, even from the Yes side, so I have to conclude that it doesn’t exist. And if the pound is the best option, that is no argument for independence.

And what about defence? All I have heard about defence is Trident. I do see the attraction of a nuclear free Scotland, but that is just party politics and, as I have said, I am ignoring party politics. An independent nation needs an effective defence. Not against invading armies, but against the modern threats including terrorism and technology crime. It seems to me that the most effective defences against those are an effective intelligence system and the threat (and hopefully just the threat) of effective retaliation. An independent Scotland would not enjoy either of those without the sort of expenditure which would prejudice other essential public spending.

I liked this by accident when I went to quote it.

What about when the oil runs out in the UK? Is that not an issue? Smaller countries tend to have more flexible economies. Take a brief look at the richest countries (by GDP per capita and GNI per capita), you'll notice a trend: most of them have small populations much like Scotland. I refuse to believe that some of these countries can simply be better than Scotland, particularly when many of them are Northern and/or Western European countries.

I agree on currency. I don't want a currency union in the long term. An independent currency, long term at least, will really benefit Scotland.

You mention terrorism but again, what threat is there to Scotland? Two terrorist attacks since the end of WW2. One by the UVF and the other by two guys who were totally unaffiliated to any Al Qaeda cell. That's not to say we should be complacent but fortunately intelligence sharing is very much alive between NATO states and EU states. Cyber crime is a legitimate concern however, and one I do share.

Clearly you aren't going to change your mind the night before the referendum but I'd just thought I'd respond to some of your points.
 
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#11
(09-17-2014, 11:46 PM)StrathyStaggie Wrote: I liked this by accident when I went to quote it.

What about when the oil runs out in the UK? Is that not an issue? Smaller countries tend to have more flexible economies. Take a brief look at the richest countries (by GDP per capita and GNI per capita), you'll notice a trend: most of them have small populations much like Scotland. I refuse to believe that some of these countries can simply be better than Scotland, particularly when many of them are Northern and/or Western European countries.

I agree on currency. I don't want a currency union in the long term. An independent currency, long term at least, will really benefit Scotland.

You mention terrorism but again, what threat is there to Scotland? Two terrorist attacks since the end of WW2. One by the UVF and the other by two guys who were totally unaffiliated to any Al Qaeda cell. That's not to say we should be complacent but fortunately intelligence sharing is very much alive between NATO states and EU states. Cyber crime is a legitimate concern however, and one I do share.

Clearly you aren't going to change your mind the night before the referendum but I'd just thought I'd respond to some of your points.

I have taken that accidental Like hostage....but I have given you one in return! Thanks for responding. I am very happy for my logic to be tested, even at this late stage.

The oil running out is of course an issue for UK too, but I read that it provides less than 2% of UK revenues compared to around 10% for an independent Scotland, so a smaller hole to fill. The 10% won't all happen at once, but it is a hole which would need to be filled over a period either by more taxation or reduced public spending (or, most likely, a combination of these) and on balance I think that is not somewhere we need to go.

I can see that small flexible economies can be good, but sometimes sheer bulk is also useful. Best example in my view is how we have come out of recession which I don't think an independent Scotland would have been able to do so well. You probably know I am a glass half full type, but I am not so confident that another world recession can be avoided. Not soon perhaps, but history tells us it is inevitable.

Is the "14th richest country" claim based on GDP or GNI per capita? I have never got to the bottom of that and assumed it was just party political statistics (aka guff). And there are also plenty of small population countries which are nowhere near the richest, no matter how that is assessed, so I am not convinced that population size is an important factor.

As you predict, I'm still a Naw.
 
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#12
My postal vote was sent away a while ago.

A Yes vote was inside.

 
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#13
So disappointed.

 
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#14
The day Scotland s**t herself! It will come, it will come!!
 
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#15
Well done Scotland
 
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#16
The polls are closed, the votes have been counted and verified, and OTB has voted for independence by 56% to 44%.

I hereby declare the Independent Republic of OverTheBridge.info

 
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#17
How many of the folk that voted no actually believe Westminster will keep its promise??
 
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#18
(09-19-2014, 10:52 AM)wemyss77 Wrote: How many of the folk that voted no actually believe Westminster will keep its promise??

I can't really believe anyone was persuaded by that.
 
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#19
(09-19-2014, 11:35 AM)Savage Henry Wrote: I can't really believe anyone was persuaded by that.

It wasn't Westminster's promises that persuaded me, it was Alex Salmond's complete lack of direction or plan for post-independence Scotland. He had nothing, and when this was pointed out, the No campaign were 'scaremongering'. Given a bit more planning and direction, i might've voted Yes, but i couldn't let Salmond and his complete lack of anything concrete to run us into the ground.
 
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#20
(09-19-2014, 11:35 AM)Savage Henry Wrote: I can't really believe anyone was persuaded by that.


So why was it needed then?
 
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