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Poll: Are you in favour of "Average Speed Cameras" on the A9?
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Average Speed Cameras on the A9
#1
Thought I'd start what could be a more in-depth topic for OTB for a change!

Personally, I'm completely against this. It could possibly make it even worse. Speeding isn't the problem on the A9, it's the slow moving traffic, the frustration that causes and the resultant stupid & risky overtakes. Average speed cameras will instead force HGVs to slow down further (because lets be honest, pretty much only Tesco adhere to the 40mph speed limit at the moment) and this will just cause more frustration. Who here hasn't been stuck behind a Tesco lorry for what's felt like an eternity and spent miles looking for a suitable place to overtake? If anything, the stop-gap solution until the dualling is done, is to increase the speed limit for the HGV's.

Thoughts?
.: Ours, is the Fury :.

 
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#2
Totally agree, speed is not the problem. Tesco wagons and the like (doing 35-40 mph) with long tail backs prompting mostly normal idiots to turn into complete idiots trying to overtake.
 
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#3
Agree completely - it's not speed that's the issue, it's the lack of safe overtaking opportunities. I don't like the facebook page that's against the cameras though - the guy who runs it does so too politically for me.
 
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#4
The A9 is not the problem it's some of the people driving on it, some folk are always in too much of a hurry and take chances where they shouldn't, how many times have you driven that road with some idiot driving on your bumper waiting to overtake and then when he does you invariably catch up with him a couple of miles down the road so they're not getting there any quicker just a car or two in front.
I think HGV's should be legally be allowed to drive at 50mph on single carriageway and 60mph on dual as plenty do it now.
As for the issue with average speed cameras only people who don't observe the legal speed limits have the problem with this. If you wish to speed go to a race track, life's too short to end up wrapped round a crash barrier or tree on the A9.
 
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#5
(08-31-2013, 10:25 AM)dawyckstag Wrote: The A9 is not the problem it's some of the people driving on it, some folk are always in too much of a hurry and take chances where they shouldn't, how many times have you driven that road with some idiot driving on your bumper waiting to overtake and then when he does you invariably catch up with him a couple of miles down the road so they're not getting there any quicker just a car or two in front.
I think HGV's should be legally be allowed to drive at 50mph on single carriageway and 60mph on dual as plenty do it now.
As for the issue with average speed cameras only people who don't observe the legal speed limits have the problem with this. If you wish to speed go to a race track, life's too short to end up wrapped round a crash barrier or tree on the A9.

While I agree, I don't for this particular road.

I think one of the points is the fact they are going to throw money at all this technology to solve a problem than does not exist. Would they not be better putting that money into a pot to help improve the road?

There is also the point these cameras are likely to be in the only bits where you can make progress (i.e. dual sections) and just make the problem worse. This is maybe a bit negative, but look where the current camera are positioned, accident black spots? I don't think so.
 
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#6
(08-31-2013, 10:25 AM)dawyckstag Wrote: The A9 is not the problem it's some of the people driving on it, some folk are always in too much of a hurry and take chances where they shouldn't, how many times have you driven that road with some idiot driving on your bumper waiting to overtake and then when he does you invariably catch up with him a couple of miles down the road so they're not getting there any quicker just a car or two in front.
I think HGV's should be legally be allowed to drive at 50mph on single carriageway and 60mph on dual as plenty do it now.
As for the issue with average speed cameras only people who don't observe the legal speed limits have the problem with this. If you wish to speed go to a race track, life's too short to end up wrapped round a crash barrier or tree on the A9.

On the whole, the A9 isn't the problem, but it exacerbates it. How do you intend on stopping idiots from overtaking in dangerous places? The simplest tactic is reduce their need or want to carry out these overtakes. Average speed-camera's won't do that. They'll make them even more desperate to overtake to get back up to the 60mph.

As I said in my first post though, I do agree that the limit for HGV's should be increased though.
.: Ours, is the Fury :.

 
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#7
(08-30-2013, 09:57 PM)wemyss77 Wrote: Totally agree, speed is not the problem. Tesco wagons and the like (doing 35-40 mph) with long tail backs prompting mostly normal idiots to turn into complete idiots trying to overtake.

Couldnt agree more with you.

Another point is cars typically driven by older folk being driven at 45-50mph... You would fail your driving test for this but the police arent bothered. Driving below the speed limit is just as dangerous.
Highlander29
 
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#8
This average speed camera idea is a joke - the road needs to be dual carriageway - simples!
Supporter Liaison Officer 

 
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#9
(08-30-2013, 09:38 PM)Spain Wrote: If anything, the stop-gap solution until the dualling is done, is to increase the speed limit for the HGV's.

Yes the Road needs to be completely up graded which is underway but those things seem to take ages but at lest it is in hand after many years of ignored by certain Political Parties.

As I'm involved in the Road Safety industry here are a few points to ponder.

Increasing the speed of HGVs is not the solution as they usually run on V. hard tyres giving poor grip in stress situations, ie Skiding, Jack-knifing etc.

HGV drivers do not have to do an Emergency Stop exercise on their tests, only a braking test conducted at max. 20 kph, the DSA deem it to dangerous for their examiners to be involved in ES exercise, whilst in HGVs and Buses.

So next time you are being tail gated by an HGV just think of that you will stop a lot quicker in your vehicle.

Just look at the shocking casualty rates in Grampian area and you will see that it has a negative effect. as Grampian cops actively encourage trucks to drive faster to keep the traffic flowing, then turn on the ordinary motorist with underhand tactics to slow them down cos everyone else speeds up.

So you speed up the trucks and there will be bigger problems for you to deal with.

I had 18 months in Raigmore due to a speeding HGV driver who tried to stop in the wet Jack-knifed and wiped me out. You must be absolutely bonkers to want them to drive faster.
You can take the People out of the Highlands but not the Highlands out of the People
 
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#10
(09-02-2013, 10:13 PM)Applecross Staggie Wrote:
(08-30-2013, 09:38 PM)Spain Wrote: If anything, the stop-gap solution until the dualling is done, is to increase the speed limit for the HGV's.

Yes the Road needs to be completely up graded which is underway but those things seem to take ages but at lest it is in hand after many years of ignored by certain Political Parties.

As I'm involved in the Road Safety industry here are a few points to ponder.

Increasing the speed of HGVs is not the solution as they usually run on V. hard tyres giving poor grip in stress situations, ie Skiding, Jack-knifing etc.

HGV drivers do not have to do an Emergency Stop exercise on their tests, only a braking test conducted at max. 20 kph, the DSA deem it to dangerous for their examiners to be involved in ES exercise, whilst in HGVs and Buses.

So next time you are being tail gated by an HGV just think of that you will stop a lot quicker in your vehicle.

Just look at the shocking casualty rates in Grampian area and you will see that it has a negative effect. as Grampian cops actively encourage trucks to drive faster to keep the traffic flowing, then turn on the ordinary motorist with underhand tactics to slow them down cos everyone else speeds up.

So you speed up the trucks and there will be bigger problems for you to deal with.

I had 18 months in Raigmore due to a speeding HGV driver who tried to stop in the wet Jack-knifed and wiped me out. You must be absolutely bonkers to want them to drive faster.

Agree, but we are talking some Tesco waggons doing as low as 30 here.
 
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#11
Improve the rail links for freight. It's scandalous that large parts of the line are single track only.
 
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#12
About 10% of accidents on the A9 involve HGV's so OK reduce their speed. The other 90% involves cars, vans & bikes so why not restrict them and make the road even safer
 
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#13
(09-04-2013, 05:52 PM)gujeecof Wrote: About 10% of accidents on the A9 involve HGV's so OK reduce their speed. The other 90% involves cars, vans & bikes so why not restrict them and make the road even safer

The Like above was a mistake, but you have a point in the percentages but cost wise and time to reopen roads following serious HGV crashes is much greater.

The speed limits at the moment are adequate but people don't slow down when conditions change ie. weather and also drive to close ignoring the 2 Second rule with sometimes horrendous results.

But the worst problem with the road is that drivers can easily forget that they are on a Dual carriageway as it is on split levels at times so when it returns to Single carriage way drivers can thing that they are still on the Dual.

In the last 7 years I have lost a best friend and three other acquaintances all caused by fatal decisions made by others so something needs to be done now.

The new Forth road bridge was built Very quick so why not the A9.
You can take the People out of the Highlands but not the Highlands out of the People
 
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#14
(09-04-2013, 09:15 PM)Applecross Staggie Wrote:
(09-04-2013, 05:52 PM)gujeecof Wrote: About 10% of accidents on the A9 involve HGV's so OK reduce their speed. The other 90% involves cars, vans & bikes so why not restrict them and make the road even safer

The Like above was a mistake, but you have a point in the percentages but cost wise and time to reopen roads following serious HGV crashes is much greater.

The speed limits at the moment are adequate but people don't slow down when conditions change ie. weather and also drive to close ignoring the 2 Second rule with sometimes horrendous results.

But the worst problem with the road is that drivers can easily forget that they are on a Dual carriageway as it is on split levels at times so when it returns to Single carriage way drivers can thing that they are still on the Dual.

In the last 7 years I have lost a best friend and three other acquaintances all caused by fatal decisions made by others so something needs to be done now.

The new Forth road bridge was built Very quick so why not the A9.

I agree also on the dual and single confusion, and made that mistake myself once having been on the road hundreds of times before. You could argue they are actually making this worse (when you think of tourists) by introducing crawler lanes as there are now 3 types of carriage way in place, however the advantages of these outweigh this extra confusion. It is dangerous road no matter what I suppose.
 
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#15
(09-04-2013, 09:15 PM)Applecross Staggie Wrote:
(09-04-2013, 05:52 PM)gujeecof Wrote: About 10% of accidents on the A9 involve HGV's so OK reduce their speed. The other 90% involves cars, vans & bikes so why not restrict them and make the road even safer

The Like above was a mistake, but you have a point in the percentages but cost wise and time to reopen roads following serious HGV crashes is much greater.

The speed limits at the moment are adequate but people don't slow down when conditions change ie. weather and also drive to close ignoring the 2 Second rule with sometimes horrendous results.

But the worst problem with the road is that drivers can easily forget that they are on a Dual carriageway as it is on split levels at times so when it returns to Single carriage way drivers can thing that they are still on the Dual.

In the last 7 years I have lost a best friend and three other acquaintances all caused by fatal decisions made by others so something needs to be done now.

The new Forth road bridge was built Very quick so why not the A9.

There's always going to be a lag with a project of this size. Right now they're doing all the boreholes to check the ground conditions up and down "the corridor". Then they'll design it to suit, and then they'll have to compulsary purchase the land before putting the works themselves out to tender.

These stages can't be avoided. The only way you can speed the whole process up is by carrying out all the construction works at the same time. That would be a logistical nightmare though and push costs through the roof. Plus the roadworks up and down the length of the A9 in every section would cause massive delays.
.: Ours, is the Fury :.

 
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#16
As someone who drives the A9 mostly as a tourist the big problem is not the speed but the road. I can drive from Dorset to Perth in 8hrs but in summer during the day it can take 4hrs to get from Perth to Inverness. Getting stuck behind a truck, behind a caravan, behind a tractor or JCB at 20 or 30mph after 9hrs driving is immensely frustrating.
One major problem with AvSPs is overtaking, it is often necessary to accelerate to high speed to ensure you take into account the unknown and complete the manoeuvre safely. A reluctance to break the limit to complete an overtake safely could in itself cause accidents.
I dislike AvSCs intensely but I can't see another way of improving accident rates in the short term. My concern is that the Councils could be tempted to use them as a cash cow. IMO they should be positioned on single carriageway sections & accident black spots only and not on areas where overtaking can be done safely i.e. dual carriageways.
Another thought would be to have them on at specific times say between 6am & 8pm otherwise it will become a no overtaking road.
A last thought is to actively encourage drivers on the A9 (especially trucks & caravans) to leave sufficient space to the vehicle in front for a passing vehicle to pull in. Being able to overtake 1 car at a time would be much safer. Beginning an overtake to find yourself being forced into passing 3, 4 or more vehicles as the space you intended to pull into has gone is truly dangerous. A passing car that has misjudged the available space or time and finding nowhere to pull back into is the ultimate nightmare.
 
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#17
No matter what they do on the A9 idiots will always speed and idiots will always cause accidents.....cameras will make absolutely NO difference,
I had some driver training with the police, and as an ordinary motorist they actually encouraged us to overtake and always be in front, so we could see what was happening on the road, the suggestion was also made that it is NOT illegal to speed whilst overtaking, remember these guys are supposed to be some of the best drivers and are certainly highly trained.....the general conclusion at the end of the training was that apart from lack of concentration ....slow driving was MORE of a problem than driving at or very close to the speed limit...regardless of what your driving.....
There's a fine line between genius and insanity
 
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#18
(09-05-2013, 07:43 AM)Stiflers old man Wrote: No matter what they do on the A9 idiots will always speed and idiots will always cause accidents.....cameras will make absolutely NO difference,
I had some driver training with the police, and as an ordinary motorist they actually encouraged us to overtake and always be in front, so we could see what was happening on the road, the suggestion was also made that it is NOT illegal to speed whilst overtaking, remember these guys are supposed to be some of the best drivers and are certainly highly trained.....the general conclusion at the end of the training was that apart from lack of concentration ....slow driving was MORE of a problem than driving at or very close to the speed limit...regardless of what your driving.....

Very well said, I've been involved with retraining courses for the Courts, we mostly come across people who have lost concentration and therefor have made horrendous decisions, where them selves or others have been hurt.

Even the basic driving tests require good progress and overtaking, driving slowly and "carefully" will fail a test.

The Human factor is generally the problem not Speed
You can take the People out of the Highlands but not the Highlands out of the People
 
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#19
Does anyone know when these come into operation? I came up the road overnight from Ireland on Thursday and notice there are lots and lot of cameras but nothing to say if they are operational or not!!
 
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#20
(07-19-2014, 06:54 PM)wemyss77 Wrote: Does anyone know when these come into operation? I came up the road overnight from Ireland on Thursday and notice there are lots and lot of cameras but nothing to say if they are operational or not!!

Dont become active untill October. Actually beside the first camera north of Perth there is a sign which says cameras not in use .Others elsewhere on route
 
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